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Secular Christmas?
Secular Christmas?
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posted 11:41am, Nov 25, 2007
I have a question... not a challenge just a curiousity...
I know there are many families out there that are not Christians that celebrate Christmas. My question is why? How? and how do you explain the difference to your kids- or do you?
,
posted 5:12pm, Nov 25, 2007
We celebrate christmas or technically Yule (Jól in Icelandic).
During this time of year heathens celebrated the winter solstice. When romans invaded f.ex britain and brought christianity to britain they put christian religous holidays on times that were already being used for celebration by the general population.
The christmas tree predates the christian christmas coming to britain, it was part of the winter solstice celebrations and symbolized rebirth as now the days started getting longer heralding the coming of spring and the rebirth of nature. Therefore the christmas tree is not really a christian tradition but rather a tradition that the heathens kept alive during this time of the year and was slowly melded into the christian christmas.
The giving of gifts was also often part of the winter solstice celebrations as a way to showcase what people had been working on during the winter season and to gain prestige within clans and to solidify relationships between different clans.
Celebrating christmas is just as much non christian as it is christian. But christians use this time to celebrate the birth of christ. Non christians often view this time more in the capacity of the winter solstice of old.
My family uses Yule to celebrate the breaking of winter (many cultures had a breaking of winter ceremony at this time of year) to enjoy a quiet peacefull and restfull time together , the knowledge that soon spring and light will come, we have about 20 hours of darkness at this time of year and in the northen most part of the country they might get an hour of so of twilight.
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posted 7:51am, Nov 26, 2007
we do not celebrate christmas as christians, but we do celebrate being together with family, celebrate winter and the passing of another year.
SArah
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posted 10:14pm, Nov 25, 2007
what kitster said about why I celebrate Christmas. to me, it's not only a Christian holiday. it wasn't even originally a Christian holiday. to me, it's a time to get together with family and loved ones, and exchanging gifts has always been part of the tradition.
I do go to church with my husband out of respect for him - I know he really wants to go, but wouldn't go alone. the service is always lovely, and I enjoy observing it.
as for explaining the difference to my children, I don't. I'm the only person in my household that is an athiest, and I tend to keep it to myself. my husband knows, it's just not something we generally discuss. my son has his own ideas, and I'd rather not influence those by espousing my beliefs. he has a right to believe whatever he feels.
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posted 11:52pm, Nov 25, 2007
Thanks for your open answers...
I appreciate the information because I really want to know about other cultures/spiritual beliefs
I do have a bit of a problem with "I'd rather not influence those (thoughts) by espousing my beliefs." ... isn't that the role of a parent to train, lead and instruct our children? I'm not saying I agree with your stance on the non-existance of God, but I do believe we have a responsibility to raise our children physically, spiritually and academically in the best way we can. Ignoring one aspect of their upbringing isn't to the child's benefit - long term. They can always seek on their own as they grow up but denial of a foundation of any belief seems neglectful... Thoughts?
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posted 7:03am, Nov 26, 2007
yes, it is my role to train, lead and instruct my children. however, faith is a very personal matter, and I don't believe it's my place to tell my child what to believe.
like I said, I am the only athiest in my home. and that's fine with me. I want everyone to have the right to believe what's right to them - if my child gets comfort from believing there's a god, then more power to him and I think that's wonderful for him.
and again, just because I'm not forcing my beliefs doesn't mean that there is a denial of foundation of any belief - it's just that mine are different than his. insisting that my beliefs are the ones that are "right" and "true" would be no better than religious people stating the same thing about their particular religion.
,
posted 1:08pm, Nov 26, 2007
I dont train, lead or instruct my children in matters of religion.
I am an atheist and so is my husband. There a lot of atheists and agnostics in both our families, actually the majority is Atheist or Agnostic.
However I do teach them about different religions, any religion they express an intrest in I will teach them about it. The school they go to also teaches about all religions but does not favour one over the other. Well they actually do, as do all schools, teach more about the ancient norse mythology which is still being practised today. But this is because it is such an integeral part of our history, tradition and literature. We still read the texts from the 9th 10th 1th 12th centuries and onward. Children are tought to read the old tounge and a lot of these sagas and texts have a lot of foundation in ancient Norse Mythology ( Ásatrú) and understanding of them depends on ones understanding of said mythology.
I do raise my children physically, spiritually and academically. I dont raise them religously. I think religion is a private matter and freedom to choose ones religious beliefs is a basic human right.
In Icelandic law parents are not allowed to prohibit there children from practising a religion different to there own. Childrens religious freedom is enforced here.
,
posted 7:12am, Nov 26, 2007
I think it is funny that everyone is saying it (Christmas) wasn't originally a Christian holiday. Christmas is only a Christian holiday. CHristian leaders placed it during some pagan celebrations to hopefully convert more people to Christianity, which is also why some traditions have crossd the barrier (like Christmas trees) But the pagan celebration it overtook was not called Christmas. I'm not saying it is wrong to celebrate with family and friends at this time of year if you wish, but please understand that even if you call it Christmas you are not really celebrating Christmas, just a time of togetherness. Yes togetherness is a part of Christmas because people come together to celebrate the birth of Christ and yes we give gifts to loved ones like the wise men gave gifts to our Savior, but without Christ it is not Christmas, just a winter celebration.
That being said I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday of their choice filled with lots of love, family, and friends.
,
posted 1:59pm, Nov 26, 2007
No it was not called christmas, it was called Yule, or in Icelandic Jól. Jól is what is celebrated here in Iceland, by christians and non christians alike. Christians focus on the religous aspect, non christians dont. I know a lot of people in the states, britain and australia who talk about celebrating Yule, Christmas and X-mas euqually. The reason they use christmas as a term is that so many people dont understand the word yule.
But the tree, feasting and gifts were all part of the traditions of old.
And The birth of christ was not at this time of year according to many religious scholars, lambs are not born around christmas time f.ex. Its just as "wrong" to celebrate christmas at this time as it is to call yule christmas. Also gift giving was not a real part of christmas before it basically co-opted the pagan celebrations. The explanation thet we give gifts because the wise men did came well after the the christian christmas had taken this practise from the pagan celebarations.
The old celebrations are actually suprisingly similair to how Icelanders still celebrate christmas. The celebration takes part in the evening of the 24th of dec, it starts with a meal, often several courses. After the meal people sit together by the tree and talk, open christmas cards, read the cards and talk about the people who sent them. Gifts are opened and people carry on talking, listening to music or even playing music, children play games often into the early hours.
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posted 5:51pm, Dec 16, 2007
Solstice, Saturnalia, Yule - the only reason that Christmas came to be was when the Christians went around converting the Pagans, they had to adopt local customs to "fit" Christianity and its timeline. Easter is a spring fertility rite - there were no rabbits and eggs at Calvary.
Now, I am sitting in my house with two Christmas trees, stockings hung by the chimney with care, presents under the trees, Christmas cookies in Tupperware on the hutch. Lights in the windows and in the bushes.
I'm Jewish. I was named in the synagogue, bat mitzvahed and confirmed. I'm not a "practicing" Jew, though. I don't go to the synagogue regularly or anything, and haven't since Sunday school. I do light the Hanukkah menorah.
My husband was raised in the Church of England. He has always had Christmas trees. When he and I married, I had never had a Christmas tree and was afraid I would do it wrong - put the ornaments on wrong or something. Now I am an olf pro. I love Christmas, but for me it's not about Jesus and never was. It's a winter celebration of many different cultures. I am not begrudging Jesus a birthday, but historically if the Bedouins and nomads were heading to his creche, it would have been in about May or so.
I celebrate Christmas because I like it. It's become a secular holiday, and I like the feeling of family, warmth, friendship and love. For me it's like Thanksgiving, and religion has nothing to do with it.
I have always wondered the same thing. What is the point in celebrating something that you don't believe in? And how do you do it? Although with today's version of a commercialized Christmas all over the place I guess maybe it would be easy. Maybe it is no different than Halloween? I don't celebrate Halloween for the same reason's that it was started, but now that it is just a fun day for the kids to dress up I don't have a problem with it. But the reason for Christmas and the true meaning of Christmas will always be here- I don't understand why or how people celebrate it without believing in it.